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critical thought, gay people, hate, hypocrisy, imaginary bigotry, intolerance, Political Correctness, shut up you fool!, thinkin' 'bout stuff makes my head hurt somethin' turrible, Why am I so stupid?
By Tardsie
Folks, If You Look Hard Enough For Anything, You’ll Find It.
Or, How I Learned To Stop Thinking And Talk Louder
Nothing feels so good as being on the right side of an issue. You’re for gay marriage, and you want the whole world to know (in fact, that’s largely the point). That’s cool, friend, you know which way the wind is blowing, and you don’t want to be caught on the wrong side of popular opinion. We understand. We don’t respect it, but we definitely understand.
The problem is how you go about it. You’re trying so hard to show the world that you value freedom and individual liberty and that you despise the tyranny of conformity. Unfortunately, by aping Soviet-era denunciations or McCarthy-esque accusations, you’re really just demonstrating an embarrassing inability to grasp concepts more challenging than a sound bite.
Stalin: Extremely Successful In Getting Everyone On The Same Page.
Please stop using the word hate to describe people who don’t agree with you. We’ll talk about what hate IS in just a moment, but for right now, here’s what it’s not: hate is not disagreement. If someone fails to ringingly endorse your lifestyle, it means they disapprove. Hate is when that person wants you removed from society, even as a concept. Having a preference against something is not now, nor has it ever been hate. This can’t be the first time you’ve had that explained to you.
It’s Because He’s Intolerant. We Hate That, Too. In Fact, We Just Won’t Put Up With Intolerance.
Perhaps this illustration will help. Now, I believe that polygamy should be legal. Do you? It’s all right if you don’t. But for the very many of you who don’t feel this long-standing cultural practice should be legal, let me ask you–do you hate polygamists?¹ It’s seems a stupid question doesn’t it? Of course you don’t–you just don’t support their lifestyle. Why then do you make allegations of hate at people who fail to endorse the gay lifestyle? (It’s because you’re not very smart).
Seriously, Dude–Why Do You Hate The Plygs?
Folks, one of the things about making adult decisions in our own lives is being able to live with the consequences of our actions, whether or not we get approval from our peer group. You say you’re proud of yourself and have nothing to be ashamed of. Why then is it so important that society validate you? Some news about complete and total acceptance: It ain’t coming, buddy–no matter how you choose live your life, not everybody is going to like it. Another part of being an adult is understanding this.
Good For You. Now All You Need To Do Is Live It.
So we’ve established that holding an opinion contrary to that which is politically correct is not, in and of itself, hate. Well, then just what IS hate?
I Know Where I Am, But How Did I Get Here?
By Which We Mean “World History For YOU.”
We’re so glad you asked. Let’s talk about Uganda, just one of the many countries around the world where gay people have to deal with real hate. You may ask, “So do gays in Uganda also face the horror of potentially hearing disapproval of their lifestyle?” Indeed they do–with the added inconvenience of occasionally being slaughtered for being gay. Now, that’s got to hurt some feelings!
These Guys Totally Know How You Feel. Or They Would–If They Were Legally ALLOWED To Be Gay.
We’d heard similar stories from Iran, but apparently they’re false, as we were informed that no homosexuals exist in Iran. We asked around, and to a man or woman, every individual told us he or she was 110% straight, hated gay people, and wished we would stop asking them these questions and please go away before the religious police saw us talking to them and started to get ideas (which would have been wrong, they were quick to remind us, as Iran is completely free of the gay).
Iran: ‘Cause You Can’t Hurt A Dead Guy’s Feelings.
And if America’s 2012 victims of “hate” could somehow be transported to Europe in the Spring and Summer of 1945 as the Nazi camps were liberated, I’m not sure that any of those few surviving individuals from Berlin’s once-thriving gay scene would be quite as moved by the plight of 21st Century gay Americans. Should you ever find yourself in this position, we recommend not telling this recently liberated individual how much Dan Cathy’s hurtful words “burn you up.” That means something entirely different to him.
“Really? They Don’t Approve Of You? My God–You Are So Brave Just To Get Out Of Bed In The Morning.”
Hating The Haters: We Hate Their Hate
This issue is personal to me. Now, I support the right for gays to marry (and I tell you this not so you’ll think better of me–your opinions aren’t even your own, so why should I care what your smarter, better-educated friend thinks of me?–but to remove one more intellectual obstacle in the hope–however vain–that you will be able to work yourself through this), but my very conservative grandmother does not. By the standards of your shortcut logic, that means she hates gays.
You should know, however, that for many years my grandmother took a variety of people into her home–teens, bums, single mothers, bachelors–anyone who needed it. I recall that one of them was a young gay man who lived with my grandmother long enough to graduate high school. I won’t speculate on what would have happened to the young man had she not taken him in for a few months, but it’s safe to say she made a great difference in his life and potential future.
Have you done as much as my Bible-thumping grandmother, or is lip-service enough to give you that warm glow of righteousness? Does it disturb you even a little bit that such a bigoted person has been of far more service to “the gays” than you have?
We Forget: Is It What You Say Or What You Do? We Hope It’s ‘What You Say’ Because, MAN!–That Is So Much Easier.
So when you call my grandmother a bigot or a hater, you’re not only demonstrating an inability to think critically about what you say, but also that you’re intolerant. I’ll admit it–it is painful for me to listen to you talk, because in terms of actual reasoning ability, you’re not much more advanced than a grade-schooler (I’m not saying it to be cruel; go back to the polygamist analogy–really, you should have been able to come up with that one on your own). Does that make me better than you? Absolutely it does. But I don’t hate you.
Sadly, there IS hate in America. As hard as it might be to believe, there are people who despise other people simply because of what they believe, who call names and shout epithets, who believe that people with these beliefs should be denied employment. But friends, when you can finally learn to put aside your hate and let people believe what they want to believe, America will be a better place.
To Be Fair, You Are Following Historical Precedent.
So let’s stop misusing hate before we completely strip the word of all its meaning, the way we did long ago with ‘love.’ Instead, why don’t we all worry a little bit less about whether somebody else likes us or approves of the way we live our lives, and just get about the business of living those lives.
Or Just Shut The Fuck Up. You Know, Whatever.
“He’s Trying To Trick You, Comrades! Utopia Will Come Once Everybody Feels The Same Way About The Issues: No Arguments, No Headaches.”
Promethean Times 
Smak — great post. I understand EXACTLY what you are saying and my husband and I have these conversations all the time. I think I know what prompted this post as well — could it be the latest thing in the news dealing with chickens? Jon Stewart pretty much said the same thing you did on his program last night that you are testifying here. It’s pretty ridiculous what we’ve all come to. Pointing fingers, getting furious at someone who doesn’t believe how we believe. It’s absurd.
I can’t understand why the people who point the finger at someone being intolerant or accusing someone of something is doing the exact same thing as what they are ranting about the other side doing. I won’t tout all my beliefs here but if you read my posts, I think you get a good idea. And no, I’m not saying that so you’ll like me any better either. ;).
Peace, my brother.
Thanks, Brigitte!
Yeah, the chicken fiasco was really the straw that broke the camel’s back. But as we get closer to the election, people just get louder and louder, but not any smarter.
But I think the thing that really got me angry (I wrote this piece a couple times–this was the ‘nicest’ version) is when I think about some of the people who are tarred with the “bigot” label. Now, I’m sure a great many of them ARE bigots. My grandmother, however, is not. She is an amazing, brilliant (she never finished her doctorate) woman who has lived a long time (long enough to bury two children) and done a lot of good for people. Sometimes I get frustrated talking to her, because we don’t see a great many issues the same way–she seems so old-fashioned. But I understand the place she’s coming from. I KNOW this woman, and the people who call names and scream don’t. It upsets me that this woman, who is worth ten of her detractors, should, at the end of a hard (which is not to say bad by any means) life in which she has accomplished so much, that she should be judged by imbeciles.
So I can understand how you and your husband feel. People are so divorced from history, and don’t take the time to think about their own live, their opinions or the opinions of others. The media and certain politicians perpetuate this, however, and I think people take their cues from them (and certainly not from any internal moral compass).
Thanks for reading, Brigitte!
You sure do put things in perspective, Smak. When viewed against countries where people are systematically murdered for their sexual orientation, gender, or beliefs, I guess our American-grown hate seems kind of petty. Ours is sort of a luxury hate in comparison.
I do get profoundly annoyed when people trot out some sort of knee-jerk “I hate X” without any thought behind it and without being able to provide any actual reasons for their statements. Have the goods to back it up, jackass.
I hate that.
Yeah, we’re so careless with our language. Another one is the Hitler/Nazi analogy when it’s not used properly (and yes, I’m aware that I made liberal use of said analogy). I think it’s particularly insidious when it’s used lightly (e.g., “Soup Nazi,” or “My Teacher is a Nazi.”) I’ll admit, I used to be a little more free with the term. That ended after the first time I visited Dachau.
Thanks for reading! I certainly don’t hate that…
I wish I’d come up with the phrase “luxury hate.” It’s just about perfect.
Finally, someone who understands that a difference of opinions does not equal hate! Thank-you for your post, it’s encouraging to know that someone gets this!
Likewise, I’m gratified by the response. Reading the news, I thought NO ONE got it. Thanks, Nicole!
I don’t care what anyone believes. Everyone can believe whatever they want to believe. My issue is when said belief actually does emotionally or physical damage or injury to someone else.
I have never “hated” anyone in my entire life, and some other person may have, in the same situation.
Sometimes I WANT to hate someone, for hurting or neglecting children or animals, or even killing them, or torturing them. They believe that’s okay. It’s not okay. If I dared to hate someone, I would destroy them. And then, myself. So, I cry a lot…
Well, it seems to me the important thing is that you’re able to engage in self-regard, to think about your thoughts. This is a uniquely human capacity, but we so often fail to use it. By choosing your response, you are being responsible. If it sounds like I’m trying to be witty, I’m not. Good for you.
I don’t hate either, but not because it’s wrong. To hate something is to give yourself over to it, in much the same way as love, but without the reward. I’m not interested in being controlled by something I despise.
Thank you, for such a thoughtful response to my reply. I appreciate it. And no, I feel as though I’m talking with someone of intellect, as in my grown son. It pleases me. 🙂
This is by far the best editorial I’ve read on the subject. You should be nationally syndicated, my man.
I could use some nationally-syndicated $$$, that’s for darn sure! Thanks, Bill–this is something that I’ve been stewing on for a while.
The best way to deal with hatred is by ignoring it and wearing a silly hat.
Works every time.
But what if you encounter a person like me, who is rabidly intolerant of headware of all kinds?
You disgust me, you fucking hattie!
A very fine, passionate piece. Hats off!
Thanks, Bumba! I figured if I didn’t write it my head would explode.
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I totally loved this, and it gets my vote for post of the week: http://cakesandshakes.wordpress.com/2012/08/04/read-this-hatey-hate-hate-what-it-is-and-what-it-aint/
Thanks, C&S! I appreciate it. It’s nice to see that not everyone has the madness!
“Instead, why don’t we all worry a little bit less about whether somebody else likes us or approves of the way we live our lives, and just get about the business of living those lives.”
Yep, that’s the perfect way to say it!
well said!
This is interesting, although I don’t think your opening paragraph does the rest of it justice. It had me thinking that if you support gay marriage doesn’t mean you do so to be with popular opinion, that could be the last thing you are interested in. However the soundbite arguments I agree with. Things are seldom that straight forward, and hate is just a daft and misunderstood concept to begin with. When I listen to the language that some people sat in opposition, I’m sure there are haters (why it should be that extreme I don’t know), but on mass not that simple. It could just as easily be because you believe in the bible and your interpretation from that is that it is wrong.
A close family member of mine is insistant that the bible does not say gay marriage is not allowed, merely that it says it is not right to lay together. It says nothing of marriage (which is an inferred point), nor anything of God hating gays, or not forgiving gays (like other sins are forgiven). I’m not religious or any expert on these points so if I am incorrect, someone can feel free to offer me some new information.
I too also have a relative who did some open house to many different people but had some slightly hypocritical views to things like gay marriage. I would not discribe this relative as a hater either. I’m still not entirely sure how to describe her now. Misguided? A denier of rights? I don’t know, but she never wasted her time hating anyone.
Good post.
Thanks, Elliot!
I agree that the first paragraph can give the (erroneous) impression that I intend that all (or even most) supporters of gay marriage are merely going with the tide of popular opinion. However, I think a great many are, and this post (although intended to be read by everybody) was directed at them. I’d like to think that anyone who supports gay marriage through honest principles would be principled enough to know that calling people hurtful names because their opinion is suddenly unpopular is a rather ugly irony.
I don’t think being against gay marriage is necessarily hypocritical any more than I think being against polygamy is hypocritical. Frankly, I don’t think enough people think deeply about any of the issues; if you look hard enough, most everybody is a hypocrite.
People think they understand issues because they read about them and stay “informed.” But rarely, I think, do they digest what they read, or see the biases in their sources. I read a fair amount of news, and (and I know you’ll believe this) I see A LOT of headlines. In many cases, I can tell an article’s bias (in an ostensibly objective news report) from the headline. For example, if a headline reads Candidate A SLAMS (also HAMMERS) Candidate B on Issue X, then the article is most likely biased toward Candidate A. If it reads Candidate A tries to shift focus to Issue X, then the article is most likely biased against Candidate A. This is just one of a thousand tiny examples, but to 99% (I think that’s an accurate figure) they’re invisible.
Regarding homosexuality and the Bible. It depends on what version you read. However, unless you can read Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew (I can’t), it’s pretty hard to know what the Big Guy really said (several reputable scholars say it was “NO FAT CHICKS.”) Some versions describe homosexuality as an abomination. Of course, in the Old Testament, God smites a dude for masturbating (see the story of Onan, which is where we get the term Onanism), which has me pretty nervous.
Of course, the pertinent stuff comes in the New Testament, where Christ commands us to hate the sin but LOVE the sinner, and also reminds the world to “love thy neighbor as thyself” and to remember that “Whatever you do to the least of my creatures you do also unto me,” and that “for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.”
Sorry to go all Sunday School on you, Elliot. But years of a fundamentalist upbringing have to go somewhere.
I think being against gay marriage is hypocritical in some instances, not all, depending on how it matches up with the rest of your beliefs and or actions, in as much (and as you point out) that almost everyone has something hypocritical about them somewhere.
I know what you mean with the headlines, I suspect more often than not it is an agenda set by the owner or editor, but obviously that won’t always be the case. I recall mentioning on a blog somewhere before that in the UK there is a tabloid newspaper owned by Murdoch called “The Sun”. For years it was “Conservative” whilst Thatcher was Prime Minister, then followed by Major. In the nineties when the Labour party were clearly gaining ground and about to take over government with Tony Blair as Prime minister, suddenly the paper decided that he public was right and the Conservative party had too many things wrong with it. So it became a Labour paper. I think now that the situation has reversed again, the Sun has declared for the Conservatives. You can probably guess what this did to the political news stories. The interesting thing is one of his newspapers in Australia has done the same thing. They don’t match with the politics of each other, but whatever is going on in the respective country. The writers write to that agenda. Thankfully not all the other papers are like that although most do lean more to one direction, but stick with it.
The sunday school stuff was fine. Starting at a church aided school did nothing for me on the religious front, but I find the interpretations interesting whether I believe them or not. I read a blog by Jerry Coyne – http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com
It is biased towards evolution but it takes things on in an intelligent and reasoned manner. It posts a lot. You might have no interest at all and don’t think I am trying to force this on you or anything along those lines. I’m just pointing out that it is there, and I like the approach taken.
I think being against gay marriage is hypocritical in some instances
Totally. In my response I kinda over-corrected and gave the impression that it is never hypocritical, which I don’t believe is true.
I’m semi-familiar with the big British papers (& tabloids with their page 3 entertainment), but didn’t know anything about the Australian papers. I guess yellow journalism knows no nation.
I’ll check that site out. I don’t really mind “bias” if it’s upfront and accounted for. I think a lot of the bias does come from editors and owners, but I think a great deal comes from the writers themselves. In most cases, I don’t think it’s intentional, but rather a failure to think about our opinions and how we phrase them. Journalists are supposed to be the perspicacious ones–they’re supposed to see through the crap. Now, I think readers should do that, too, but if these biases are getting past the journalists, it’s unlikely that the average reader will have the critical reasoning skills to spot them.
With regards to interpreting what the Big Guy said, I really do think people pick and choose what they like.
The Bible was written a long time ago, and as such, it only makes sense that many of the ideas they had about things are not going to be the same as our own.
It’s easy to play Dana Carvey as the Church Lady. It’s a lot harder to actually follow Jesus and do as He would do- comforting, forgiving, helping, loving others as we love ourselves. I know coming from a really convoluted background (I grew up with a mix of old-school Catholic and Regular Baptist but finally came to the conclusion that I’m truly a confessional Lutheran) I had so many mixed messages about what living out Christian faith really is. Is it about obeying the rules, observing all the rituals, being chaste and modest and giving to charity, or is there more there? Because of my upbringing, legalism is always a temptation for me- until I remember I deserve fire and brimstone just as much (if not more) as anyone else no matter what they’re doing. We are ALL hypocrites, yours truly definitely included in that. We are all works-in-progress that are nowhere near finished.
It’s more about the heart and surrendering to God’s grace. I screw up and I know it.
That’s really hard for me. There are grey areas, but there are also things that are wrong no matter how people try to candy coat them, and there are people who are downright evil.
Unfortunately too many people are afraid to speak out against things that are clearly wrong because it’s politically incorrect to do so, or because one will be labeled a “hater.” Too many people think that Christian charity and forgiveness means giving evil a pass. The apostle Paul had a lot to teach us about loving people while not being afraid to call evil what it is. It is a balancing act.
Awesome post again, Smak!
Thanks, this one was near & dear to my heart!
It’s more about the heart and surrendering to God’s grace. I screw up and I know it.
To me this is one of the most beautiful and decent aspects of Christianity, and one which I think is poorly understood by most non-Christians and a great many Christians.
Unfortunately too many people are afraid to speak out against things that are clearly wrong because it’s politically incorrect to do so
Yeah, so much of this is going on right now. I think it’s unquestionably a good thing that we as a society try to avoid making some of the racist assumptions we’ve made in the past, but we’ve become so timid. There’s also the idea that if you aren’t part of a certain group (say, a woman) then you can’t talk with authority about an issue (for example, abortion). There are a lot of issues I might care less about if somebody wasn’t trying to tell me I can’t voice my opinion.
Damn Smak….this is good, I mean SO good I don’t even have a smart-assed comment to make. At what point did we become so incredibly ‘offended’, so easily ‘injured’, and so pathetically ‘fragile’ that others are no longer allowed to voice an opinion which contradicts our own? The politically correct crowd are masters at bullying, masters of that whole ‘either you’re part of the solution or you’re part of the problem’ mentality. Fuck that.The truth is that most aren’t even aware they’ve been ‘offended’ until someone tweets it or a few friends post it on facebook and suddenly they’re ‘shocked’ and ready to form a lynch mob.
I recently wrote this in the comment section of a friend’s blog on a post dealing with the issue of being offended: In order for someone to offend me I have to actually give a damn about them and what they think. This rules out politicians and media personalities. Free speech should never be sacrificed to spare the feelings of the overly sensitive or those who feel they are somehow untouchable and should, by right, be emotionally and philosophically protected from the opinions of others.
Great post Smak!
Thanks, Alex! You make an excellent point about having to care about someone to care about what they say. In a way, hating someone is the flip side of that. Because if you give yourself over to hate, you become emotionally involved with this person you supposedly despise. Your actions are dictated not by you, but in a way by your enemy. It can become your reason for existence, and that’s pretty fucking sad.
Your point is well-taken.
“Hate is when that person wants you removed from society, even as a concept.”
Good post. I see your point and agree generally. But in saying (above) that disagreeing isn’t hating because bashers don’t call for the anhiliation of gays we’re only nicely glossing over that the only reason the Christian next door isn’t demanding their gay neightbors move, screaming epithets and hurling stones is because of social pressure and disapproval for that kind of thing post holocaust and theoretically in our America-ness. If the only thing they can possibly control is the gay marriage issue, then they’ll vote against it. Once that’s “won” what will the “haters” try to force upon them next?
Just my opinion though…
we’re only nicely glossing over that the only reason the Christian next door isn’t demanding their gay neightbors move, screaming epithets and hurling stones is because of social pressure and disapproval for that kind of thing post holocaust and theoretically in our America-ness.
Undoubtedly some are like that. But I think that a good many are not–I KNOW some are not. I think in many ways it’s a rather ironic turnaround from how people have treated gays for years–people get most of their information about evangelical Christians from television, and because television misrepresents and mocks them, people take it as license for them to do as well.
Also, I find it extremely curious that when people want to vent their anger over gay rights they do it at Protestants and Mormons. Is it that people don’t know Islam’s stance on gay marriage, or it’s easier to get mad at Christians? When Prop 8 passed here in California, “brave” protesters disrupted church services of congregations they knew wouldn’t kick their ass. The area’s African-American churches and Muslim mosques were spared.
We like to call names and feel superior, but only when it’s safe to do so.
Thanks for reading. And regarding “just an opinion”–I wish EVERYBODY remembered that’s what it is. Good for you and for those who do!
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The guy is fucking ugly.
That, my friends, is hate. If only I didn’t love that hateful clown so…
Interesting discussion of hate and how it has been watered down. I hated someone once. It was a terrifying emotion. It consumed me. I worked very hard at letting it go. I think so few people really know what hate is, but I’m not sure I want them to get up close and personal with it.
Wise words, and thanks for the comment. Yeah, I can imagine that hate can just eat a person up. I guess it can give a person a reason to exist, but it’s a hollow reason, and just like seeking meaning from any external, transient thing, it goes away when its object does.
but I’m not sure I want them to get up close and personal with it.
Agreed. But I’d say real hate is almost always personal.
Thanks, again!
I’ve said before that I truly don’t care too much about what other people do unless they try to impose it on me or their activities interfere with the rights of others. In other words, your freedom of religion ends when your religion says it’s OK to kill me because I’m an “infidel” (this is what frightens me about literal interpretations of Islam.)
That being said, I must opine that polygamy would really suck, because I never want to live in the same home or even in close proximity with other women again in my life. My two older sisters ruined the concept that more than one woman can live in the same house peacefully forever for me. Polyandry would be just fine though, especially should it be one old cougar and several fine young stud muffins/ pool boys. That would work very well for me.:)
Yeah, I don’t “get” polygamy either. I mean, I’d enjoy having relations with the various wives, but not putting up with all that BS. I just figure that if it’s legal to shack up with a dozen women, it should be legal to marry them. It strikes me as inconsistent to be for one personal liberty (either your own or one that’s safe to espouse), and not another.
The problem stems from past history when polygamy was practiced but was not mutually agreed upon. Men took wives because their religions told them to. Heck, even the Bible has men with many wives, which always amuses me when Christians talk about the Bible defining marriage as one man one woman.
However, gay people are killed in America just for being gay (see Matthew Shepard, the most famous). I have never heard of someone killing a heterosexual because s/he was straight, or made a pass at someone, which, of course, many women might be justified in doing.
Reblogged this on alienredqueen and commented:
I absolutely LOVE this article. Not only does it put a spotlight on intolerance and ignorance, it reminds us as individuals and as a society what real hate is. I don’t often reblog other people’s articles. If I have something to say, I say it myself. But this particular article not only highlights an important idea that many “God-fearing Americans” seem to have forgotten, but also indirectly underlines a theme you may have noticed runs through a lot of my social commentary pieces…and that is this: you don’t have to like or agree with what I do or how I live my life, but stop trying to tell me how to run my life and stop trying to force your way of life on me. Basically put, you leave me alone, and I’ll leave you alone.
Thanks so much for the reblog, ARQ! I’m really glad that this spoke to you!
NP! I just wish the message would get through to those that really need the convincing!
I need to bookmark this and come back and read it from time to time.
And I am not a fan of reblogging, but if alienredqueen hadn’t, I wouldn’t have stumbled across it.
Agree. I usually don’t reblog much unless I am referring to my own work posted elsewhere, but this one really spoke to me.
That’s how we find a lot of good stuff. There are so many undiscovered gems out there, that it sometimes takes someone else finding it for us. However you found us, we’re glad you did. Thanks ASE!
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